The U.S. military released a video in Baghdad yesterday, saying it was seized during a raid in December in Khan Bani Saad, north of Baghdad. Those who were training the kids stood behind the camera. They watch the kids as they break into a house and capture the people sleeping on the floor inside. They watch them as they stop a man on a bike ordering him to sit on his knees and put his hands behind his back while they direct their AK47s on his head and chest. Some of their moves appeared to be similar to al-Qaeda’s, but the rest looks more like a military training. I believe most of those trainers were members of the disbanded Iraqi army who decided to take revenge after Bremer sent them to the streets.
God! What does Iraq have anymore? The entire new generation is going down. It is impossible Iraq would improve or return to its former shape at least after having this new generation destroyed. Of course, they are destroyed! They have nothing to see except death, bombs, warplanes, helicopters, dead and wounded bodies, shootings, beheadings etc… It has been five years since the war started. It has been five years of their eight or ten years, seeing all of these things in front of their eyes. It’s been five years of complete failure of the Iraqi politicians to sit down and see how grave the danger surrounding us has become. It has been five years of concentrating on who gets more, who changes the flag, and who prays for God. It’s been five damned years and all Iraqis could see is nothing but collapse, segregation, hatred, and blast walls surrounding their once opened neighborhoods.
The video was released, but words and actions from our revered government were not released. What is the parliament doing? Changing the flag? Is that all they could do? Or what? Approving a law of not opening a bank account in a bank not in your neighborhood? Or what? Weren’t they supposed to discuss education, build more schools, lessen the illiteracy rate and change the children’s way live their lives? Don’t these things worth million times of what they are doing right now?
Oh and now there will be those optimists opening their mouths, “How dare you say that. The situation has improved. People are living in peace. There no al-Qaeda” bla bla bla… The danger is deeper and bigger than these illusions. These kids who are trained will someday become terrorists and destroy any peaceful thing in front of them anywhere on earth. And you know what? It’s not only al-Qaeda whom we should blame for that. It’s a lot of people.
You are so right BT, its not just al-Qaeda who should be blamed. There is so much blame to be spread around both in America and in Iraq.
ReplyDeleteI am so sad to see children being brainwashed like this! They will kill and be killed. That is no life for them. These children should be in school learning how to benefit Iraq not how to tear it down.
Hello at first,
ReplyDeleteHow horrible.
I admire your blog so much.
Sad Sandybelle
BT, you can imagine after the last email how this news hit me, i heard it the next day.
ReplyDeleteThank you for posting this telling and shocking video. This is my take upon it -
ReplyDeletehttp://threescoreyearsandten.blogspot.com/2008/02/childhood-in-iraq.html
what seems to be an al-Qaeda training camp somewhere in the country yard.
ReplyDeletefrankly, i'm not sure if the term al-Qaeda is perhaps used to describe 'everybody bad' for the purpose of mass consumption. who are these people? do they all follow one leader? is this term thrown around indiscriminently?
do we know if this group actually operates in iraq without any support from the members of government? is perhaps this label used to simplify when actually it can serve to hide the identity of those who wish to continue the bloodshed and remain anonymous?
if the US military says it is AQ, does that mean it is? do you think these people are connected to the taliban? osama? or could this be some sort of homegrown sectarian group out for their own revenge?
what possible reason could the government in iraq have to ignore this threat to the next generation?
why are we supporting a government that is not accomplishing the basic needs of security for the people.
these children are not the casue of the conflict, they are victims of war. i hope they don't turn into little red guards.
Annie, one should always do as you did on your comment above! Ask questions and more questions when ever we hear news these days.
ReplyDeleteTreasure,
ReplyDeleteWhat is the verse from the Qur'an that goes something like, "Man plots, but God is the best of plotters."?
If we are going to build a point of view of what is real, and important, then we need our foundation to built on a rock and not on the sand. Because sand will shift with the wind and the waters. Secondly, if we (or you etc) try to save one by one all the Iraqi children, it can't be done. Better to have an organization (or organizations that are sincerely committed for the long term, the very long term). There are such people and such organizations.
I have seen several video excerpts of Iraqi young teens being trained in the same fashion during Saddam's reign. Why is this so shocking now? Many of them are the same people, carrying on the tradition that has been effective tactics in Iraq for decades. Of course, the 'good' people of Iraq never saw it on their televisions, and the atrocities were committed against the 'other' Iraqis, so I suppose it was better in that sense. And now you can blame it on outsiders, so it is more outrageous. It can't be the fault of Iraqi culture.....
ReplyDeleteI have seen several video excerpts of Iraqi young teens being trained in the same fashion during Saddam's reign.
ReplyDeletereally? got link?
how curious, i have never heard of a video like this before, showing children being trained in this way in iraq. this is horrific.
B Will Derd,
ReplyDeleteEven though there were such kind of training of Iraqi kids under Saddam, that does not mean it's not shocking! If it is not, it means we didn't change anything Saddam did! And that's the disaster. Your country's president and his henchmen claimed he was liberating us from such kinds of things that happened under Saddam, but he simply didn't. The country's situation deteriorated 100 percent from its former shape. The government and the parliament whom your government brought from exile keep ignoring what Saddam did. Actually, Saddam did a lot of good things in terms of education. At least he made it free for everybody from elementary school to post-graduate schools. Yes, he was a tyrant and criminal but he also had some good things which unfortunately are better than what you guys promised us of. I am here in the US competing with my American peers because of the education I received when I lived under Saddam. I wasn't turned into a terrorist and it's all because of the way my parents raised me and how my schools and teachers played a big role in making this happen.
So to make it short, if it wasn't something weird, why did your troops occupied our country and the whole "we are going to liberate you crap" happened?
a kids with guns primer:
ReplyDeletehttp://patriotboy.blogspot.com/2008/02/kids-with-guns-primer.html
by the way, I have worked in the public schools in the state of Georgia, USA, and seen pictures of kindergarten boys with rifles and military gear standing besides a killed deer and their fathers. It is something to be proud of for them.
Yeah, I know. Saddam was a murderous tyrant, but that's what Iraq wants and needs to make the trains run on time. There have been other nations who adopted that philosophy, and they met an end much like Iraq's. Except I think we have not allowed Iraq to reach an 'end', and that's the problem.
ReplyDeleteI think what was promised and has been paid for dearly, was the opportunity for Iraqis to do what they liked to tell themselves and the rest of the modern world they would do if only they could be relieved of the all powerful tyrant and his police state. And with all that great free education, Iraqis have thus far proven themselves incapable of forming a society of laws and respect for the inherent rights of their fellow human beings. Apparently that education was heavy on avoiding responsibility because that's the one thing that virtually every Iraqi I have read has down to an art. There doesn't seem to be a lot of self contemplation in its traditions. Most of the educated ran like hell when the opportunity arose.
Why was Iraq occupied? Because the people of Iraq failed to rid themselves of the regime that went to war repeatedly, defied the Western world in general, and the United States in particular. If you really think that after 9-11 we were going to allow Saddam to continue to defy our demands to account for all WMD and programs and show a willingness to defer to some of our needs, you weren't nearly as well educated as you seem to think. The politically correct among us like to think that Islamofacism arose due to the lack of liberty and hope among most Islamic nations. Freeing one of the largest, potentially prosperous and modern nations in the geographic middle of the region that also happened to effectively be at war with us, seemed like a good place to start. We needed a place to make our intentions known and our intentions were to demonstrate that radical Islam was a destructive force for us all. Our 'way' would lead to peace and prosperity. I always thought that was naive and not a strategy with historic precedence for success.
I like to trust history and happen to think that this new way of waging war against a vile fascistic ideology is doomed to fail, and I haven't been disappointed. The fact is, the people of the region have allowed that ideology to take root and set themselves up as our enemy. Enemies must be thoroughly defeated before they can be 'liberated' from the thinking and culture that led them to becoming our enemies. That's what history seems to indicate, but the do-gooders among us are tying to go at it in a different way. I hope we are learning that if you want peace, you better win the war and win it decisively so your enemy knows he has been defeated--- or killed. It has to be obvious to your enemy that the ideology and culture that led them to destruction is doomed to fail and has to be utterly abandoned. It will come to that eventually. Fundamentalist Islam will have to be destroyed in a world where the world is connected and weapons of the most powerful are increasingly available. I hope those who live among its proponents will take the necessary action without being subjected to death and destruction, but I think the sensible are outnumbered, unconvinced, or are cowards. I see some hope in parts of Iraq, Pakistan is less encouraging. Iran is potentially a very large smoking hole in the ground. One thing the Iraq situation should show the rest of the people in the region, you don't want us to come and try to help you join the modern world. Your radical neighbors will eventually instigate a much more vigorous and impatient effort to eliminate the threat.
Yeah, I know its all our fault and etc., etc., but the basic facts of what I just laid out are pretty obvious and the course of events are inevitable--- the people who are 'right' are going to be the ones left breathing when its over and the finger pointing will be for the eggheads to entertain themselves over drinks or a hookah after the smoke clears. I always come back to history, and that's the way it always works when incompatible ideologies clash to the point one cannot coexist with the other.
"Except I think we have not allowed Iraq to reach an 'end', and that's the problem."
ReplyDeleteBecause you invaded the country without a plan to reach an end! Oh! and you'll never will.
"And with all that great free education, Iraqis have thus far proven themselves incapable of forming a society of laws and respect for the inherent rights of their fellow human beings."
With all that education, Iraqis defeated the terrorists and took the streets to color their fingers with the purple ink. It's those like the US soldiers and their commanders who never had a plan to defeat the terrorists who brought them to Iraq to be fought. With this education, Iraqis were able to continue working and going to schools despite the failure of their occupiers and the henchmen whom they brought from exile in defeating a bunch of bearded men. It's because of what these occupation soldiers and the education they earned in the US that Iraqis turned against them after they saw their brothers and sisters raped, burned and abused in prisons. It's because of the arrogance and the lack of strategic plans that the country has collapsed, not because of Iraqis.
"Most of the educated ran like hell when the opportunity arose."
They ran because of the killers like your army and your country's government destroyed every single seed of hope of backing them up as they were promised.
"Why was Iraq occupied? Because the people of Iraq failed to rid themselves of the regime that went to war repeatedly, defied the Western world in general, and the United States in particular."
No body knocked at your door and said please come to liberate us. You found an excuse to invade to control the ME, not to liberate us. And don't tell me Ahmed Chalabi or Hakim asked you to do so, because these thugs were not in Iraq for three decades and did not speak on our behalf.
"I like to trust history and happen to think that this new way of waging war against a vile fascistic ideology is doomed to fail, and I haven't been disappointed."
Yeah, well history says a lot about your country's bombardments and killings to other countries and cities too!
"One thing the Iraq situation should show the rest of the people in the region, you don't want us to come and try to help you join the modern world."
Your modern world of bombardments, rape, burn, and abuse you mean?! We were better off than your "modern" world. Your "modern" world proved that you know nothing modern except that of attacking, invading and destroying peaceful countries and the interference in other countries' business. I wish you could just mind your business. The world could have been so much more peaceful.
"Yeah, I know its all our fault and etc., etc."
You should because that's the truth. You can't deny it.
Treasure of Baghdad well said indeed I fully agree with what you wrote as a reply to b.
ReplyDeleteYou BT said the truth!!!
Thank you.
Peace
Nadia
right now, in this, the twilight generations, it is much easier to tear down, than it is to build. So in the argument of words b will derd has the advantage. The justification to attack and destroy is much easier to invent, than a strategy to build up (in replacement) or from the beginning. All that b will derd can point to is a kind of selected view of history which shows that what exists right now as being right correct and true. And in one sense this reality now, is true in its expression of what we have all chosen either by our inaction or action.
ReplyDeleteWhy didn('t the US have a comprehensive plan after the invasion? To repeat, to destroy is always easier than to build up. Our generations don't have much experience with "nation building". But boy, we surely have alot of experience in destroying other nations.
If we are to destroy the thought of war with a more stronger idea of peace, we will have to be much more practiced and well informed and united than we are now, because of the imbalance in the level of difficulty. A child can kill/be taught to kill fairly easily, but what child can fix a sewage system or supply electricity to a community or organize an educational program?
Sadly, we have to learn by experience (how many articles have you read where gun familiar loyal 17 year olds from small American hometowns have joined the Marines to prove their manhood which means learning to kill on command (or not), and then after their tour(s) in Iraq mostly, they have become sickened by the that? Probably not enough, how many does it take?) and experimenting on other countries' neighborhoods, before being able to pull together our shocked scientific and engineering community to rally around
an already existing peaceful model for a progressive civilization. This will eventually happen. This issue is how long with the needless suffering occur while we perform OJT (on the job training)
The truth? Mind your own business? Such statements hardly reveal much depth of education. Surely you aren't that naive.
ReplyDeleteThere certainly was a plan. A very naive plan, in retrospect for some and obvious from the beginning for some of us. I never bought the claims of the pervading inherent civility and peaceful nature of the Iraqi people. Saddam wasn't a brutal thug with a stranglehold on the society just because he was an evil bastard. Did the brutality make him the ruler, or was it required to keep a lid on the tribal and sectarian divisions in a violent culture? Does it matter? With your own statements, it's clear you thought he had the preferable methodology for governance--- too bad he was also an idiot when it came to dealing with the rest of the world. Had he been a little more discerning, we truly could have 'minded our own business'.
Even if everything you said was true, and it may take an Iraqi education to truly believe it, it changes nothing. Your chosen world view would doom Iraq to ongoing disaster. Until Iraqis come to the conclusion that they will never have peace and prosperity while at odds with US interests in the midst of a larger war, they will continue to be the same old dysfunctional pseudo state ruled by terror in some form as it has always been. Were you all educated in the image of your Saddam? The pinnacle of Iraqi achievement seems to have been proven to be best characterized as reliably prone to idiotic miscalculations, but go with what you know and rationalize by declaring yourselves hapless victims.
"There certainly was a plan."
ReplyDeleteHahaha. Maybe there was a plan: DESTROY AND DIVIDE THE REGION TO CONTROL IT!
"Did the brutality make him the ruler,"
It certainly did.
"or was it required to keep a lid on the tribal and sectarian divisions in a violent culture?"
No, Saddam increased these divisions by preferring one sect over the other. It was not only because Saddam was powerful that he managed to make Iraqis united.
Also you keep mentioning Iraqis did this and Iraqis did that. You have to be specific because the Iraqis that are uneducated and criminal are the insurgents who were in the former Iraqi army that was dissolved by Bremer and the others are the militias that were formed after Bremer and the Bush Administration backed their Mullahs up. The civilians had nothing to do with all of this. We were all living in peace until your divide-to-conquer troops invaded, occupied and destroyed our beloved country.
"Had he been a little more discerning, we truly could have 'minded our own business'."
He did not even have weapons of mass destruction which you kept saying he had until you showed the whole world how liars you were and that your entire theory of the war was based on lies. You couldn't even find that bearded filthy old man who was the reason behind the terror attacks of 9/11. Instead, Bush found someone else to blame: IRAQ!
"Your chosen world view would doom Iraq to ongoing disaster."
As if the five years of disasters which your country created in mine were not enough.
"Until Iraqis come to the conclusion that they will never have peace and prosperity while at odds with US interests in the midst of a larger war, they will continue to be the same old dysfunctional pseudo state ruled by terror in some form as it has always been."
Well, Iraqis did come up with this conclusion but they were betrayed and mistreated by the US. The 'old dysfunctional society' worked a lot better before your new functional society which brought nothing to us than destruction. The state has been already ruled by your occupation terror since 2003. This terror have been more brutal than the organized terror of Saddam the tyrant.
Don't be so disingenuous. WE lied about his weapons of mass destruction? Why did virtually every government in the world think he had them? Because he refused to comply with the terms and conditions of disarmament of weapons he not only had, he USED, and you peaceful and educated Iraqis who had been at war with your neighbors and ethnic groups within your borders for most of the last two decades did nothing but sit and wait to see what we would do about it when your leader defied the world. And even if he didn't have any at the time of the invasion, he had them before and he certainly had the means and intention to reconstitute them at the first opportunity, so the issue of whether they existed at the moment of invasion was immaterial. The threat remained as long as Iraq remained a rogue nation. It was a luck thing for Iraq that he didn't have them to use at the time. He didn't give them up because Iraqis demanded it, so stop acting like the absence of WMD was a redeeming factor in favor of the Iraqi people.
ReplyDeleteIt wasn't Iraqis but the thugs and criminals? Aren't they Iraqis, and if the 'Iraqis' allowed them to provoke and do evil, they are complicit, weren't they? Their fate was and is in their own hands. I don't think it was so much that Iraqis couldn't overthrow Saddam as much as they feared what would follow--- RESPONSIBILITY! That's a lame cop out even for someone whose modus operandi IS cop out.
Iraqis were betrayed by America? Why, because liberty. freedom and a modern society demanded that Iraqis do most of the work themselves? How unfair! A couple of hundred thousand Americans came to a land of 20+ million cultured, educated, peace loving people and turned the society into a land dominated and characterized by the worst brutality and evil of modern times? It didn't take a generation, it took a few months. That would be a first in history.
So which is it? Are Americans incompetent buffoons or evil geniuses? Or is Iraq truly a pseudo state filled with people whose thinking is mired in an archaic tribal and sectarian mindset that is incompatible with the modern society that they declare is their right? It's owed to them not because they fought and worked for it, but because it was 'promised' to them. Because they provoked a war and were defeated, their conquerors owe them peace and prosperity? Perhaps that comes in part because the only thing that has kept Iraq from being a lower tier third world nation is the wealth from oil that the modern world is willing to pay dearly for and Iraqis' fore bearers just happened to serendipitously pitch a tent over it at some point? What a tragic, hapless people......and you wonder why the people of the world really don't give a damn when it comes down to it? Yeah, they hate the big bully until they need US, but they couldn't care less about Iraq and events prove that out.
"There certainly was a plan."
ReplyDeleteHahaha. Maybe there was a plan: DESTROY AND DIVIDE THE REGION TO CONTROL IT!
BT, and everyone. there is an absolutely stunning condemnation of the incompetence of the state department wrt baghdad's embassy in this incredible 8 page leaked memo i urge everyone to read. abc news Memo Blasts State Dept. Iraq Effort
GOP Loyalist Says U.S. Brought 'Worst of America' to Iraq
In a confidential memo, a long-time Republican operative who has served in the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad for the past year says the State Department's efforts in Iraq are so poorly managed they "would be considered willfully negligent if not criminal" if done in the private sector.
the pdf file is linked at the abc report. if i knew how to copy portions of it i would.
this is what you get when you hire inexperienced people w/no experience in running ANYTHING. 'you could find a group of grad students at any american college who could do a better job".
read it. pass it on. why did the designers of this war let go of our best experienced state department employees and replace them w/these incompetents?
BT, makoo government. For me, they dont even exist. Theyre a bunch of crooks who have no care in the world to resolve the people's issues.
ReplyDeleteYes unforunately this is the new Iraqi generation. If you think thats bad, then come to the GZ and see how the young iraqi girls, ages probably between 10 and 16 sell their bodies to the soldiers. These are girls living with their families, who almost all of them are squatters. So yes, there is no more honour, there is no more pride.
“Why did virtually every government in the world think he had them?”
ReplyDeleteBecause they believed your government. Now you see how you are left alone, because that’s what happened to liars!
“…of weapons he not only had, he USED…”
I was talking about the latest war and how your government made it a big deal that he had WMD! So don’t divert the subject. What happened in the Anfal when Saddam killed the Iraqi Kurds was condemned by everybody except your government which sat and watched and did nothing. Why was it in 2003 that Saddam suddenly became the tyrant while he was a one in 1988 when he used the chemical weapons against his people? Because he was backed up by your country which didn’t care about any Iraqi being killed by Saddam at the time. Their main concern was having someone against the Iranian regime which was the reason behind the murder of the three American diplomats in Tehran in 1979!
“and you peaceful and educated Iraqis who had been at war with your neighbors and ethnic groups within your borders for most of the last two decades did nothing but sit and wait to see what we would do about it when your leader defied the world.”
I think the entire world saw how Iraqis revolted against Saddam during the 1991 uprising and the entire world also saw how your government betrayed the uprising people, the Shiites to specific, in not backing up their uprising as they were promised when they were encouraged to revolt against Saddam while being backed up! If you don’t know facts, go read. At least you have millions of bookstores who have zillions of books about that era.
“So which is it? Are Americans incompetent buffoons or evil geniuses?”
I doubt the second one. So I’ll go with the first one. Or maybe both. Yeah, because on one hand it seems the soldiers are the incompetent buffoons since they don’t really know what they are doing except following orders like buffoons and on the other hand the administration is maybe smart but evil smart. Yeah, that makes sense.
“Because they provoked a war and were defeated, their conquerors owe them peace and prosperity?”
Hahaha. So now we have become the ones who provoked the war! Yeah, I can see how we Iraqis tore down the world trade center. Hmmm! I wonder what Bin Laden is doing in “liberated” Afghanistan?! Do you know? Oh sorry I forgot you are American, you have no idea where he is!
“What a tragic, hapless people.....”
Not as tragic and pathetic soldiers who have been fighting for five years with no real achievement except loss, abuse, rape and murder. Isn’t that pathetic and tragic? You are so much deceived by your “heroes”. By the way, did you hear that one of your “heroes” confessed he killed an innocent Iraqi and made it seem like he didn’t? That’s just fresh, a new achievement of the liberators of the victimized world. How sweet.
One last thing: could you pass this message to whoever your son or daughter “fighting” in my country to be at least a human being and not do what his/her colleagues are doing? Because after all (and that’s a thing I strongly admire about America) she/he will be caught and brought to justice! Such a bummer! A new hero disgracing his country. I wonder how many of these heroes will be doing the same.
Annie,
ReplyDeleteThanks a lot for the link. I read this article when it came out. The thing is it’s not news for us Iraqis. Maybe it is for some Americans who were subjected to a sever brainwashing for these five years of war.
[From the article] "We have brought to Iraq the worst of America -- our bureaucrats," writes Manuel Miranda in the memo, which was addressed to U.S. Ambassador Ryan Crocker and cc'd to "ALCON" or "all concerned" at the State Department.
Finally someone admitted! But don’t you think it’s kind of too late? I mean it’s been five years! Hello!!!
“this is what you get when you hire inexperienced people w/no experience in running ANYTHING. 'you could find a group of grad students at any american college who could do a better job".”
Annie, I don’t know how your time and schedule looks like but I really advise you to read “The Assassin’s Gate”, “Imperial Life in the Emerald City”, and just recently the book version of “No End in Sight” was released. All these books are based on interviews with a lot of American officials in the Green Zone and most of them speak the reality of how they fu**ed up the country with their wrong decisions!
Neurotic Wife,
Your words chilled my entire spine. As for the government and parliament, I knew about them a long time ago. I used to go to the green zone and talk to them and attend their sessions and conferences. God! They were like children fighting while hundreds of people were dying every day in the streets.
“If you think thats bad, then come to the GZ and see how the young iraqi girls, ages probably between 10 and 16 sell their bodies to the soldiers. These are girls living with their families, who almost all of them are squatters. So yes, there is no more honour, there is no more pride.”
Of course, there is no more honor if all those ruling us have no honor in at least preserving the honor of their country. God! They are busy changing the flag while these kids are being trained to be terrorist and prostitutes.
There is a new article about a RAND 2005 study done for the US Army I wanted b will derd to chew on, but..... I've changed my mind, after reading some of his remarks again. If we all sat at some imaginary table for consultation on what to do. I respectfully disagree with "b will" yet, his voice, when not so sarcastic, or patronizing (hey, he would say the same towards me?) is not without merit in that he DOES represent quite a few.
ReplyDeleteNumbers do mean something, it means power if everyone has an equal vote. "B will" could possibly vote down everyone of our ideas. And we would have to go along, assuming we couldn't convince the majority otherwise.
This is the way it should be in reality. The majority must be convinced, or else it doesn't fly.
I would hope that he continues to present his side without unnecessary flamable side remarks:
It can't be the fault of Iraqi culture.
There certainly was a plan.
but that's what Iraq wants and needs to make the trains run on time.
Iraqis have thus far proven themselves incapable...
hat's the one thing that virtually every Iraqi I have read has down to an art.
Finally, I will sit after one more quote from Mr. "b will"
Enemies must be thoroughly defeated before they can be 'liberated' from the thinking and culture that led them to becoming our enemies. That's what history seems to indicate, but the do-gooders among us..."
These ideas were once accepted as conventional wisdom of the 19th and early 20th century. Mr. "b will" I was recently reading some very interesting excerpts from the biograph of Churchill on the web. I assume you have some respect for the man. He, in the excerpts I read was reflecting on ideas similar to ones you have expressed here, now that we live in an age which can bring on the almost total destruction of a civilization if judged necessary. I will stop here and suggest that you think about what you are advocating, and giving the appearance of having nothing to offer in terms of any real insight based on personal experience in war, or living in another culture.
Regards from Japan
Now you're just being a petulant little child, TB. You aren't even pretending to have rational views any more. When you get a little emotional, you show your total lack of reason and grasp of facts. They are teaching you well in the Leftist school of journalistic arts.
ReplyDeleteIraqis revolted against Saddam? What percent revolted, and what percent stood by and watched those who revolted get slaughtered? And let us not forget those who participated in the slaughter. Where did you cower during that effort, TB? America didn't take you in for the duration of that conflict,too, did they? Iraqis did not revolt in great numbers. Most of you did what you do best: let others do the fighting while you wait in the weeds until the victor presents his ass for you to kiss.
The US did nothing about the Anfal Campaign done by Iraqis, to Iraqis and ignored by Iraqis--- I read about the slaughter, saw the pictures, watched congressional hearings, read of the air strikes and military assistance to Kurdish groups--- did you? I'll just have to chalk that up to more of the great Iraqi education Saddam provided you for 'free'.
The world believed the US? Acutally, mush of the intel came from others. World has abandoned us? Have you missed the latest elections in Europe, among other world events? No one has abandoned the US, in fact, you may not know that we are building military facilities all over Eastern Europe and the recently elected French president seems to be quite fond of America. I don't see a lot of abandonment of the US, but do you see a lot of aid and support for the old homeland?
Did Iraq invade Kuwait? Did Iraqis run with their arms full of loot as soon as the bullets started flying, accept terms of surrender, and then refuse to fully comply with those terms? Did their great leader constantly make belligerent and threatening statements regarding the US? Do you know the definition of 'provoke'? Did you all learn philosophy and logic from a Saddam authored textbook?
Neurotic Wife--- you say soldiers are using Iraqi girls for prostitutes. Are these American soldiers and have you made any effort to make that known to US authorities if so? If this is true and that was the accusation you were making, please be more specific. If that's going on, it is a crime punishable under USMCJ and I would do what I could to bring attention to such activities.
ReplyDeleteThanks a lot for the link. I read this article when it came out.
ReplyDeletesince the memo is dated feb 8 08 and is referring to the current situation i thought it was relevant that nothing had changed since the cpa days. one would think, under any kind of normal circumstances (especially since the surge was for the purpose of providing security to allow for political reconciliation to take place there may have been some improvement w/regard to facilitaing improvement from the embassy.
begs one to ask the question..what are they doing w/the biggest embassy in the world if all they are going to do is count chairs.
anyway, the entire 8 pages is painful to read.
btw, your voice sounds really strong as usual. i just love it when you tell it like it is.
come to the GZ and see how the young iraqi girls, ages probably between 10 and 16 sell their bodies to the soldiers
god, this disgusts me.
“They are teaching you well in the Leftist school of journalistic arts.”
ReplyDeleteWell as you guys say “Welcome to America”!!
This is something about the uprising against Saddam in 1991 :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_uprisings_in_Iraq
This remark by the President of the United States George H. W. Bush was heard by Iraqis on the Voice of America on February 15, 1991:[1]
“ There is another way for the bloodshed to stop: And that is, for the Iraqi military and the Iraqi people to take matters into their own hands and force Saddam Hussein, the dictator, to step aside and then comply with the United Nations' resolutions and rejoin the family of peace-loving nations. ”
On the evening of February 24, 1991, several days before the cease fire was signed in Safwan between Iraqi and Coalition military commanders, a radio station called the Voice of Free Iraq based in the Saudi Arabian town of Khafji, funded and run by the American Central Intelligence Agency, broadcast a message to the people of Iraq to rise and overthrow Saddam.[1]
The speaker on the radio was a man named Salah Omar al-Ali, a former member of the Iraqi Baath Party and Revolutionary Command Council. Al-Ali's message urged the Iraqis to overthrow the "criminal tyrant of Iraq":
“ Rise to save the homeland from the clutches of dictatorship so that you can devote yourself to avoid the dangers of the continuation of the war and destruction. Honourable sons of the Tigris and Euphrates, at these decisive moments of your life, and while facing the danger of death at the hands of foreign forces, you have no option in order to survive and defend the homeland but put an end to to the dictator and his criminal gang.[2]
”
The radio broadcast encouraged Iraqis to "stage a revolution" and claimed that "[Saddam] will flee the battlefield when he becomes certain that the catastrophe has engulfed every street, every house and every family in Iraq."[3]
Suppression of the uprisings
Once troops loyal to the central government regrouped and mounted their counteroffensive, only massive foreign assistance or intervention could have saved the ill-equipped and inexperienced rebels. With little more than small arms, machine guns, rocket-propelled grenades, and a some captured tanks and artillery pieces, the Shi'a and Kurdish rebels were almost defenseless against Iraqi helicopter gunships even though there were only six helicopters in Iraq at the that time and indiscriminate artillery barrages. They had few anti-tank weapons and even fewer surface-to-air missiles.
The central government responded to the uprisings with crushing force. According to Human Rights Watch:
“ In their attempts to retake cities, and after consolidating control, loyalist forces killed thousands of anyone who oppses them whether a rebel or a civilian by firing indiscriminately into the opposing areas; executing them on the streets, in homes and in hospitals; rounding up suspects, especially young men, during house-to-house searches, and arresting them with or without charge or shooting them en masse; and using helicopters to attack those who try to flee the cities. ”
The Kurdish uprising collapsed even more quickly than it began. After ousting the peshmerga from Kirkuk on March 29, the Iraqi army rolled into Dahuk and Irbil on March 30, Zakho on April 1, and Sulaymaniyah, the last important town held by the rebels, over the next two days.
In the South, the government had quelled all but scattered resistance by the end of March. On April 5, 1991, Iraq's ruling Revolutionary Command Council announced "the complete crushing of acts of sedition, sabotage, and rioting in all towns of Iraq."
U.S. non-intervention
The Iraqi survivors and American critics of the President George H. W. Bush say that the president encouraged the rebellion after halting American troops at Iraq's southern border with Kuwait at the end of the Persian Gulf war.[5] Soon after the uprising began, fears of a disintegrating Iraq led the Administration to distance itself from the insurgents.
Officials downplayed the significance of the revolts and spelled out a policy of non-intervention in Iraq's internal affairs. On March 5, 1991, Rear Admiral Mike McConnell, director of intelligence for the Joint Chiefs of Staff, acknowledged that "chaotic and spontaneous" uprisings were under way in thirteen Iraqi cities, but stated the Pentagon's view that Saddam would prevail because of the rebels' "lack of organization and leadership."
“Where did you cower during that effort, TB?”
ReplyDeleteI was a ten-year-old boy! I was with my father and mother who defeated danger and wars by going to work every day.
“I read about the slaughter, saw the pictures, watched congressional hearings, read of the air strikes and military assistance to Kurdish groups--- did you?”
Of course I was eight years-old at the time, but I still remember how Rumsfeld came to my country and shook hands with Saddam announcing his country’s support of the tyrannical regime.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTldYbqlJc8
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2773
On Dec. 20, 1983, the Washington Post reported that Rumsfeld “visited Iraq in what U.S. officials said was an attempt to bolster the already improving U.S. relations with that country.” A couple of days later, the New York Times cited a “senior American official” who “said that the United States remained ready to establish full diplomatic relations with Iraq and that it was up to the Iraqis.”
On March 29, 1984, the Times reported: “American diplomats pronounce themselves satisfied with relations between Iraq and the United States and suggest that normal diplomatic ties have been restored in all but name.” Washington had some goodies for Saddam’s regime, the Times account noted, including “agricultural-commodity credits totaling $840 million.” And while “no results of the talks have been announced” after the Rumsfeld visit to Baghdad three months earlier, “Western European diplomats assume that the United States now exchanges some intelligence on Iran with Iraq.”
A few months later, on July 17, 1984, a Times article with a Baghdad dateline sketchily filled in a bit more information, saying that the U.S. government “granted Iraq about $2 billion in commodity credits to buy food over the last two years.” The story recalled that “Donald Rumsfeld, the former Middle East special envoy, held two private meetings with the Iraqi president here,” and the dispatch mentioned in passing that “State Department human rights reports have been uniformly critical of the Iraqi President, contending that he ran a police state.”
So who supported the tyrant and gave him money while they knew what he really was?!!!!
“Did Iraq invade Kuwait? Did Iraqis run with their arms full of loot as soon as the bullets started flying, accept terms of surrender, and then refuse to fully comply with those terms?”
ReplyDeleteYes, Iraq invaded Kuwait because it was part of our land that was supposed to come back to us. I hate Saddam, but I and many Iraqis supported restoring our country’s land back.
Speaking of invasion: I wonder who used to live in America before your great grandparents and came and slaughtered them into pieces and took their lands after they showed your great grandparents how to plant and get food! What a way to say thank you! Oh that’s what you guys call “Thanksgiving”!! No wonder why you were surprised to see Iraqis saying “Thank you” to you after occupying their land and killing them.
relic derd Now you're just being a petulant little child, TB.
ReplyDeletelol, this is funny. after getting your ass handed to you on a plate you pretend like you can approach your adversary as if he is a child? surely you jest. you sound like some decrepit skeleton w/your "Enemies must be thoroughly defeated before they can be 'liberated' ". speel. we can't even find one guy in a cave. don't pretend iraqis are our enemies, they aren't. really, you are so low you can't even face addressing BT as any kind of equal. he is desimating your argument , or can't you tell. your revisionist history is amusing.
The world believed the US? Acutally, mush of the intel came from others.
lol, yeah, others we either bribed or tortured to say what we wanted to hear. many others, the majority of others said quite the opposite as retold just recently in an op ed from a sister of one scientist who traveled to iraq (on the gov's dime) to find out from her brother. over 30 scientists said no, no evidence.
World has abandoned us? Have you missed the latest elections in Europe, among other world events? No one has abandoned the US,
get real.
In Afghanistan, NATO is failing. Nominally, all 26 alliance members are contributing to the war effort, with some 43,000 total troops deployed. In reality, stripping away the forces provided by the United States, Britain and Canada, the alliance has fielded barely 20,000 soldiers -- this to pacify a country that is 50% larger than Iraq. Many national contingents, Germany's being the most prominent, operate under restrictions that make them unusable except in areas where relative security exists.
U.S. officials call for the allies to do more -- more troops with fewer strings attached. But Europe lacks trained soldiers, lacks adequate stores of equipment and above all lacks political will. European publics have an exceedingly limited appetite for sending their fellow citizens to chase insurgents in other parts of the world. European governments, with Germany again providing a good illustration, reflect the will of their people.
U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert M. Gates warns that NATO risks becoming a "two-tier" alliance, one tier consisting of members willing to carry their fair share of the load, the second tier consisting of free riders. His warning comes too late. The two-tier arrangement already exists, with the great majority of member states content to occupy the lower tier.
NATO is no longer a fighting organization. Keeping the Americans in, the Germans down and the Russians out no longer demands the sort of exertion that was required half a century ago. If the alliance retains any value, it is as an institution for consolidating European integration and prosperity.
rome's burning and you can't smell the smoke. you're so old school you don't see yourself the way others do, as a relic of days gone by. this is the information age, you can't just sling around assertions and pretend we are all clueless.
you say soldiers are using Iraqi girls for prostitutes. Are these American soldiers and have you made any effort to make that known to US authorities if so? If this is true and that was the accusation you were making, please be more specific. If that's going on, it is a crime punishable under USMCJ and I would do what I could to bring attention to such activities.
ReplyDeletei'm shocked! not our soldiers!
yo derd, what if, just to entertain the idea, it wasn't for our troops. what if those girls are servicing our 'private militias' ie, mercenaries. certainly they don't fall under military rules and can't be prosecuted. they also don't fall under iraqi rule. they fall under OIL RULES, WHICH MEAN THEY HAVE FREE REIGN.
we brought those people here w/cheney's 'privatizing of the military', his wet dream. as i'm sure you know half of our personel YES HALF, are not in the military.
but none the less, they represent US. they are part of this atrocity. so i think we can take responsibility. your bogus 'oh my god not our wonderful troops' response only accounts for HALF OUR PRESENTS.
besides , you seem to be more concerned about our culpability than the fate of these women.
lol, whatcha gonna do, accuse me of being a petulant child? is this your idea of thoroughly defeating the enemy so they can be liberated. maybe iraqis should grovel for you and all the women and children can lay on the backs to be violated. we can import private soldiers from south africa and columbia to do our dirty work while our galliant soldiers only ALLOW these degrading activities to go on behind closed door, or trailors like the gang raping of th e halliburton employee whose rapist are getting off scott free.
you make me sick.
No one has abandoned the US
ReplyDeletescroll for pew poll
well, mr derd seems to have abandon us.
ReplyDeletei was reading something this morning related to the latimes article i linked to upthread (the get real link) about gates begging france and germany to help us in our ever expanding 'international' terror war.
paul craig robert's has something to say about it. Bus calls on France for help
If the U.S. now needs foreign troops to save its bacon in these two lost wars, it should demand them from Israel. Israel is why the U.S. is at war in the Middle East. Let Israel supply the troops. The neocons who dominated the Bush regime and took America to illegal wars are allied with the extreme right-wing government of Israel. The goal of neoconservatism is to remove all obstacles to Israeli territorial expansion. The Zionist aim is to grab the entirely of the West Bank and southern Lebanon, with more to follow later.
Remember "mission accomplished"? Remember all the strutting neocons with their promises of a "cakewalk war"? Remember all the ignorant bragging about having "defeated the Taliban"? All of these lies were designed to tie American down in interminable wars in the Middle East for Israel's benefit.
ouch
Yes, TB, it is painfully obvious that you were not of an age to have done much of anything during the Anfal campaign, so we are left with your present actions and words to judge what you might have done. I feel pretty confident that you would have done the same thing the vast majority of Iraqis did at the time--- act as though you knew nothing and absolve yourself of all responsibility for what was done by your countrymen. You say that the US has robbed Iraq of all of its honor? Did Iraqis have honor when they raped Kuwait? Whne they surrederred after running away with all the loot they could carry and then refused to abide by the terms of their surrender? When their government was committing atrocities in neighboring states and within their own borders as a way of life? When the sons of their leader murdered and raped their daughters at will? Do you think there is honor in willful ignorance and cowardice? I find that the thing most puzzling about your culture--- the ability to deflect all personal and societal responsibility on others, while declaring yourselves and society to be innately superior to those you claim are truly to blame of all ills. How has that been working out for the great nation of Iraq so far?
ReplyDeleteDo you think there is honor in willful ignorance and cowardice? I find that the thing most puzzling about your culture--- the ability to deflect all personal and societal responsibility on others, while declaring yourselves and society to be innately superior to those you claim are truly to blame of all ills.
ReplyDeletemy my, and what kind of person are you, i can easily say willfully ignorant. as americans what kind of sociatal responsibility have we taken for the hell we have unleashed on iraq? our criminal cheney, would he sacrifice anything? what kind of treasure have iraqis gained from this war compared to the cofers running over for those you protect. then you come here on your spare time to chastise. i have a link for you, just you. since you seem to pretend concern over the young girls willing to sell themselves to feed their families.
sextrafficing and dyncorps. (we knew what they did, we ignored it)
according to Johnston and internal DynCorp communications it appears that extracurricular sexcapades on the part of its employees were tolerated by some as part of its business in Bosnia.
But DynCorp was nervous. For instance, an internal e-mail from DynCorp employee Darrin Mills, who apparently was sent to Bosnia to look into reported problems, said, "I met with Col. Braun [a base supervisor] yesterday. He is very concerned about the CID investigation; however, he views it mostly as a DynCorp problem. What he wanted to talk about most was how I am going to fix the maintenance problems here and how the investigation is going to impact our ability to fix his airplanes." The Mills e-mail continued: "The first thing he told me is that 'they are tired of having smoke blown up their ass.' They don't want anymore empty promises."
An e-mail from Dyncorp's Bosnia site supervisor, John Hirtz (later fired for alleged sexual indiscretions), explains DynCorp's position in Bosnia. "The bottom line is that DynCorp has taken what used to be a real positive program that has very high visibility with every Army unit in the world and turned it into a bag of worms. Poor quality was the major issue."
Johnston was on the ground and saw firsthand what the military was complaining about. "My main problem," he explains, "was [sexual misbehavior] with the kids, but I wasn't too happy with them ripping off the government, either. DynCorp is just as immoral and elite as possible, and any rule they can break they do.
you have nerve talking about who is truly to blame for iraqs ills. why don't you take some responsibility, or are you too cowardly? who is deflecting responsibility? i don't think you are ignorant, i think you are guilty of what you accuse others of. no wonder you are 'puzzled'. if you want the truth, try focusing your mind on your own culpability. i think you just post here to rid yourself of shame.
do americans have honor when they rape iraq?
ReplyDeletedo you derd?